SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I tested my W as much as I could during R. I she wasn't going to do her work, I wanted to know ASAP. I also asked for what I wanted - the scarier an answer could be, the more I forced myself to ask. I recommend that approach to anyone considering R.

So I recommend asking your W to forgo the girls' trip. It's an entirely reasonable request soon after d-day.

*****

I insisted on having some visibility into my W's therapy. One of my requirements for R was that W sign a release allowing her therapist to talk to me. Her therapist said she'd require a joint session if I asked anything that couldn't be answered in a few words, and that was fine with me. Without a release, the therapist may not be able to talk to you; here W's therapist can't talk to anyone but the client without a release.

W's IC was our MC, so I knew what my W was working on. In your case, I'd probably insist on a joint session to make sure that your W's IC knows about the A and to get an idea of the IC's attitude toward infidelity.

*****

Have you considered IC for yourself?

Good advice thank you.

Yes, I started IC last week virtually and have my first in person session tomorrow. I tried to avoid it as I don't usually open up, but I've realized I cannot bottle this I and can't do it alone. I've been having a lot of panic attacks and flooding of thoughts and mental images which has basically completely prevented me from sleeping.

I think your last thought on letting the AP's girlfriend know is that you would tell her eventually and certainly before she would marry the AP.

How long might that be? The AP's potential angry reaction is on him, but the fact that you're sitting on information that massively impacts this other woman's life and are not sharing it is your choice. If the tables were turned, how would you feel when the AP's girlfriend told you about the affair, and when you said "how long have you known" her answer was "months"?

Intentional omission is still dishonesty. I'd encourage you to think again about waiting to tell the AP's girlfriend.

Your potential concerns about her therapist are insightful; many therapists do not have experience counseling post infidelity and will not be helpful for her becoming safe for the marriage. I would take this seriously, the last thing you need is her therapist rationalizing her behavior and feelings during the affair. It's only one data point but her encouraging your wife to go to the festival so soon is a bit of a red flag the therapist does not understand infidelity and the impact it has on the BS.

Does your wife have a source for what she should be doing right now? The books How to Help Your Spouse Heal from your Affair and Not Just Friends would be helpful.

Arnold, believe me I understand. I recognize the hypocrisy of me wanting the truth but potentially omitting truth from the other woman. I just cant gauge how aggressive he is and would regret it much more if my disclosing led to a stalker/crazy scenario. But again im determined to disclose this to her soon.

Trdd, yeah that’s what I was getting at. I don’t want to dictate her therapy but there’s already indications of a lack of infidelity knowledge. I would think common sense, let alone a college degree, would say maybe skip the music festival a few months after getting caught in an affair when the betrayed spouse is committed to reconciliation.

We ordered how to help your spouse heal and she’s going to start reading it tomorrow

I’m not big on bullshit…
Seeing as the wedding was not local and seeing as the affair was online I’m assuming OM isn’t close. Like at least an hours drive away or even farther. Am I wrong? Is he local?

So what is it you fear he does?
How can he stalk her, out her or whatever without outing himself?
You are making the assumption that his GF will cut off the engagement. It will definitely put sand in the Vaseline, but chances are great that he convinces his GF that you are a nutcase, that nothing happened and after a few days things will smooth out. BUT the goal has been attained: The minimizing of the risk of this happening again.

If he’s THAT crazy, then aren’t you afraid of his anger when your wife cuts him off?
Or anger directed at you seeing as it’s you that are keeping him from his crumpet?
For how long have you planned to remain in the shadow of his possible anger?
Why not play it safe and simply ask your wife to sext him? After all – that should keep him happy – and you two safe…

We have suggested an NC letter. Why so quiet on that idea?

OP – I have realized that what I was doing is betraying my marriage and I have committed to my marriage. I will never again in any way or form intitiate contact with you and request that you do not contact me. Any contact will be shared with my husband and can lead to legal action.

See that part about legal action? He starts bugging you and it’s a restraining order.
Your wife is asking her therapist how to react if OM contacts her. What does the NC letter stipulate?
It’s all laid out there.

Friend – if your wife’s moral compass is so skewed that she needs to get directions from her therapist on how to react to ongoing contact with OM…

Bigger, I appreciate the brutal honestly. I don't think i'm bullshitting you, I just don't think I'm thinking clearly. It seems from my long original post, the one sentence about not telling the other woman has been hyper-focused on. In my mind it wasn't even in my top ten of priorities to worry about, which I know now was wrong. I'm still grappling at the fact that my wife was living a double life right under my nose with nudes, lies and deception.

But to answer your first question, AP lives probably about 6 hours away. So yes the likelihood of something happening is probably slim to none but my mind is more than likely irrationally going to worst case scenario. AP's boss is his girlfriends mom who runs the business currently he alluded to wanting to be a part of. So if he loses the relationship, he loses everything. And once that happens, in my mind, a 6 hour drive isn't out of the realm. I realize from your perspective it may seem I'm bullshitting you, but my mind has been in such a fog and not working clearly. It's the same reason I haven't commented on the No Contact letter. There hasn't been contact since February 15th. So sending a No Contact or reaching out to the OW would bring this affair back to light. Again i've already admitted to that thought process being wrong and have committed to telling her.

Regarding your last point about her therapist, she hasn't mentioned contact with the AP with her therapist, to my knowledge anyway, but we both are going to bring it up in IC today.

I realize i've made some mistakes, this is an uncharted territory for me and I really don't know what I'm doing. But again i've read everyone's message pointing out the one sentence from my original post and realize that was a mistake and have already said I'm committed to telling the OW.

Baseball

There are three reasons we are so hard on letting the OM GF know.
1)The moral stance. As betrayed people ourselves we all wish we had been told about the affair(s). If I could count the number of ex friends who told me in the first three months after my d-day that they knew but didn’t want to hurt me… And yes – the "ex" in front of the "friends" is intentional.
2)The preventive stance. Our collective experience is that once the OP spouse knows, the OP will focus on saving their relationship – often shoving the AP under the bus. We hate generalizations on this site, maybe especially gender-based, but MY experience indicates that your wife’s OM will make little of your wife – insisting she initiated, she was pressing him, she threatened to tell his gf, she ignored his pleas, that you are a nutcase, you are abusive… whatever. None of it matters – your goal has been reached.
Women on the other hand might turn to their AP once their partners are informed, but that’s when the truth about the "soulmate" comes to light: They get dismissed or dumped ASAP.
3)The clarity of seriousness. For your wife right now it was all just a "mistake" that impacted you and maybe her. But once she realizes how many her "fun" impacted, and the damage cost… it becomes serious.

Personally – I think 2) is enough to let her know. Just keep in mind that a message like "I think you deserve to know that my wife and your fiancé have been having a relationship that has gone too far" is enough. You don’t have to prove anything to her, your goal is to get her to question Loverboy and wake up the fear of God in him.

I can share from our collective experience that the fear you have is common, but the frequency of revenge from OM is extremely rare.

There hasn't been contact since February 15th

How do you know?
It’s not as if they would share contact with you.

I would suggest the following:
Tell her that the ONLY way forward is through the truth. That until you have a sense that you know EVERYTHING there is no way this marriage can ever be healthy, and you don’t want to be in anything but the best marriage ever.
Tell her that infidelity has made you question if there is any future for you two. If she tells you the absolute truth – even to the point of increasing your pain – there is hope, and it shows her commitment to rebuilding trust.
But at the same time, anything that you have to pull out of her, or discover through other sources and evidence will seriously erode at any hope you have to reconcile and will inevitably convince you that there is no future.

THAT includes you learning from any other source than HER if OM attempts any form of contact. Be that a poke on social media, a missed call, an e-mail, a joint friend asking…

Truth = a chance, falsehoods and lies = no chance.

Bb33 you are in the unique position of saving a woman’s life. And possibly her money too.
Do a kind deed and let the fiancée know. Save her from a future hell.

Don’t sweat making mistakes. No one does this shitstorm perfectly. We all made mistakes. The people here provide advice on what we learned going through the infidelity grinder. But you make your own path. Always value yourself. Good luck.

Double post! Sorry!

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:46 AM, Tuesday, March 31st]

I’m going to thread/jack here. I don’t normally get a knot in my stomach responding but for some reason, this one has me concerned. I’m a very well trained social worker. One of the things I have to do constantly is read body language, and the way things are phrased. I keep going back to the fact that one meet up at a wedding started this. Unless I’m mistaken, he pursued and she responded. The second thing is that he openly discussed marrying for money. And the third thing is him screaming at your wife. Those are symptoms to me of a hotheaded narcissistic type personality. It means you do not get in their way. I hope I’m wrong. It would be so nice if you could find some history on this man to find out if he is generally a law abiding citizen. He sounds like a person who grabs what he wants to hell with the consequences. I just want you to be cautious in what you decide to do. I most definitely think his fiancé needs to know what he’s been up to. That’s a given, but you also need to be aware that some people act first and think later.

Thank you Cooley for the message especially with your experience.

I still haven’t told the other woman directly but have found some creative ways. I have a few good friends that were at wedding that I’ve told as well as my dilemma. From there I truly believe she’ll know soon because of that.

I think that protects us from whatever narcissistic negative reaction may occur.

I know it may be the coward approach on my part but in my head it at least will get the word out to her. I don’t know her directly or most people from the other side of the wedding party but it seems word is traveling quick. I’ve already had people reaching out to me in awestruck who know both me and my wife. We were the "fun" couple that at surface level looked "perfect"

And if for some reason she remains in the dark through the rumors that are beginning to spread I will tell her. She is not his finance yet, that is coming "soon" according to him to my wife.

I still haven’t told the other woman directly but have found some creative ways. I have a few good friends that were at wedding that I’ve told as well as my dilemma. From there I truly believe she’ll know soon because of that.

Don't expect other people to take an active role in informing the OBS.. Far too many people are reluctant to be dragged into such sensitive problems of another couple. Even if someone did, what if the OBS contacts you and you are forced to admit that you've known about the affair but didn't tell her? How do you think she's going to react? She may wonder if she can even trust you going forward. So, a person that could have been one of your strongest ally's in protecting against further contact and sharing previously unknown information, decides you are an unreliable ally and cuts contact with you. Or worse, she just thinks you're a coward willing to be a doormat for your cheating wife.

Come on Baseball, you can be better than that.

Start regaining some sort of control over the situation and getting some justice (you'll find there's not a lot justice in these situations, so take it where you can.) Drop the AP in the deep dryer with his partner. Why should you be the only one suffering in this? You really think your WW is suffering near to the level you are? On some level, just know your WW is thinking of the other man with some fondness and pines away that her chance with him is gone. She never would have gotten involved with him if she didn't. Let her face some consequences for her actions.

You all are right, all of you. It honestly just didn't really occur to me to meddle and I was concerned about backlash and disrupting the progress we've made since I found out in February.

I slept on it last night and decided to reach out to her this morning with a brief message and offered up any time to talk. She replied relatively calmly but upset. I'm going to give her space to process and answer/compare notes when/if she's ready.

I feel a huge weight lifted off my shoulders. Looking back, I know I should've done this much earlier.

[This message edited by baseball33 at 5:24 PM, Saturday, April 4th]

Congrats. You did the right thing. She has her agency back. It’s never an easy thing to do, but it is the right thing. Well done!

Don’t let your wife know of the exposure. At least not yet.
This gives you a clue as to if there is communication between her and OM.
Of course she can’t prevent him from blowing up her phone, but how she responds can be telling for you.

You did the right thing. I think you know that now, just based on your feeling of a weight that's been lifted from your shoulders. That poor woman deserved to know. We all deserved to know.

I agree with Bigger. If you haven't already, don't tell your wife you contacted OBS. If she finds out about it you'll know she's still in contact with him. Unless of course she finds out through a grapevine or something. In either case her attitude if or when she finds out will also tell you a lot.

My husband had an emotional affair, not the exact same scenario but I understand how you feel. We are still in reconciliation, it has been a little over 2 years and it is just now getting a little easier. It is going to be really tough for a long time but if you both want it to work it can but your wife will have to be willing to put in the work every day and go through all the rough days with you. We have had really good days and our relationship has grown a lot and we have had really bad days, you will spiral out of nowhere and it will take you down for days and your wife will have to be willing to do that over and over again. She will have to answer the questions 1000 times and she needs to figure out her why, why did she need validation from someone else? Why were you and the kids worth risking for someone to tell her she was pretty? There is something deeper than just needing a compliment.

It is hard but it is possible and I never thought I would ever say that, I was blindsided and always said I would walk away if this ever happened but honestly it NEVER crossed my mind that it would. We are working our way back slowly and you can too if y’all truly want it.

Put you and your wife first right now and do what you need to do for your family. You told the OW so now let her handle him and focus on y’all.

I hope the best for you.

Baseball
Totally agree that you now focus on yourself and your marriage. You don’t have any obligation to convince the GF, or have any further impact on OM relationships other than the one with your wife.
Have you mentioned the risk of the saucy photos to your wife? I honestly am a bit surprised how common inaction is about content like that. The odds of the pics being floated around are significant, and basically the only defense as-is being that so much sexual content is generated online that there is a realistic chance of nobody being able to connect these pics with your wife. I might be tainted because about 10 years ago I helped a friend get a recording of his daughter having sex off the net after a sleazebag BF shared it. We were only successful because he could prove the daughter wasn’t fully 18 at the time of recording.
A NC letter with the comment about the content and it’s distribution – maybe even with a reference to the revenge-sex legislation would be a quick and easy thing to do.

-
Affairs don’t just happen. There is an underlying reason.
Many will be pointing at things within the marriage. Like… maybe you work too much, maybe you play golf without her all Saturday, maybe you don’t help with the housework, maybe the sex has become routine, maybe you gave her the stereotypical valentine card and a crappy bunch of gas-station flowers, maybe you always wear your favorite Rush-shirt with the gravy-stains…

We need to be careful here.
Of course we need to take care of marriage. It’s like a potted plant that needs regular attention and care. But… the reason for the affair is NEVER in the marriage per se. NEVER.
Any of the issues I mentioned – ANYTHING within the marriage or anything you did or did not do – that is dealt with using communications.
Or… like my wife did… by throwing my convention-freebee shirts in the trash…

Like… if the spark has dwindled the one experiencing that might try to reignite it: arrange for a weekend escape, have a unique date or whatever. Or they might discuss the issue with the spouse. She thinks you could do more housework? She tells you so, and you two discuss the issue. She has issues with your golf? Again – you talk and compromise.
What you don’t do is find the solution outside the marriage.

Same if she starts talking about the excitement or whatever the affair offered. First of all, it’s a misplaced emotion. She could also get excitement from shoplifting or walking across a road blindfold.
You don’t fulfil a need for excitement with immoral means.

I think – and a lot supports this – that 99% of all infidelity is VALIDATION.
Validation is fine and we all seek it in some ways. Some find internal validation simply sitting in their couch in the evening with a full belly, all the bills paid and their family sleeping safely nearby. Some find it in work, a raise, a positive review. Some find it in being sought after socially. Some find it in lowering their golf-handicap or benching an extra ten pound.
Validation is fine. It’s confirmation that we are doing good.

For some reason our spouse telling us we look good… stops cutting it after some time. The compulsory morning-kiss goodbye, the Friday date night sex… mundane. It’s like getting the paycheck at work without the praise for a job well done.

But "wrong" validation… that’s not good. That’s like being praised for a job well done, knowing someone else did it.
Validation can also be a sign of insecurity, and I think that’s where it tends to start. We fix our insecurity with wrong forms of validation…

When a person of the opposite sex shows you attention… That can be validation. For most of us there is a line. We don’t cross that line. For some that line is an immediate displaying of a marriage-band and a rebuttal, for some it might be a bit later. But we all know that although a dance might be OK then ass-groping isn’t. Although a peck on the cheek good-bye might cut it, one on the mouth doesn’t.

Now – If I was insecure or had some immense need for validation I might think an ability to pick up women would confirm something. Like… I still got it. Someone things I’m interesting. Someone desires me. Woohoo!
What do I need to do to continue getting that validation? I know that flashing the wedding band, or removing the hand off my knee will remove the person giving me validation and thereby ending the fix. I better let that hand stay there… maybe not complain when it moves up the knee…

I think that’s probably where your wife is/was – just like I think 99% of all those that cheat are.
She was seeking validation.
The price for the ticket was sexting and flirtatious/sexual messaging.

So why the insecurity? Age? Stagnation?
I think the key to recovery is to get to the bottom of that.
I think she needs to seek IC, and to approach the IC with something like:
I’m here because I allowed myself into an affair, despite wanting my marriage. I want to understand what made me think this was a good idea, and something I could get away with.

It’s entirely possible that after a few sessions you two could address some of the issues with MC. But not because the marriage made her insecure/need validation, but rather because she needs to find her validation within the boundaries of the morals she sets herself. That includes fidelity.